Kim Doepker & Heidi Fagerness on Leadership, Learning, and Finding Your People

In this episode of A Matter of Principals, AWSP Associate Director Gina Yonts sits down with two outstanding middle school leaders: Kim Doepker and Heidi Fagerness.

What unfolds is less an interview and more a conversation between colleagues who have become trusted thought partners through their involvement with AWSP and the Middle Level Leadership Committee.

Kim and Heidi reflect on their unique journeys into leadership, discuss the challenges and opportunities of middle school leadership, and share how collaboration with fellow principals has strengthened their work around MTSS, school improvement, data analysis, systems development, and culture-building.

Throughout the conversation, their complementary leadership styles become clear. Kim describes herself as a systems-focused leader who thrives on creating structures and clarity, while Heidi embraces her role as a culture-focused leader who prioritizes relationships, trust, and belonging.

Together, they explore what it means to be vulnerable as a leader, how professional networks accelerate growth, and why every principal needs people they can call when challenges arise.

The episode serves as a reminder that great leadership is not about having all the answers—it’s about creating the conditions for learning, growth, and collaboration among students, staff, and fellow leaders.